One of the most common things I hear from songwriters is that they’re afraid they subconsciously stole their melody from another song… and therefore their melody is not really ‘theirs’.
For a song to be actual plagiarism, a substantial portion of its melody has to be exactly the same as the other song’s. As we’ll see, this is actually hard (though not impossible) to do.
Many songs – if not most – have melodies subconsciously taken from or ‘inspired by’ other songs; that’s just how imagination and creativity work. So why doesn’t this result in many songs with exactly the same melody?
Well, for one thing…
* If you make a melody within one octave that’s 2 notes long, there are 25 different possible variations.
* If you make a melody within one octave that’s 4 notes long, there are 7,825 different possible variations.
Most melodies are longer than 4 notes. So…
* If you make a melody within one octave that’s 6 notes long, there are app. 1.84 million different possible variations.
* If you make a melody within one octave that’s 9 notes long, there are app. 5.4 billion different possible variations.
Get the picture? Once you start stringing more than a few notes together, the possible variations quickly become practically infinite… making it very unlikely that your melody is exactly the same as another. (I’m not talking about the issue of originality – that’s another story.)
This doesn’t even take into account the rhythms of the notes – which would have to add another few billion possibilities.
Even if you try to remember a melody and copy it exactly… the odds are you’ll screw up a note or two and end up with something different!
If I hear something I like in a song on TV or in a movie, in a deli or a store or at home, and I’m inspired by it, I’ll rush to my guitar or a recording device and copy what I’ve heard, the way I remember it… safe in the knowledge, borne of personal experience, that my brain has already changed it into something else.
When I go back to the original source, it’s always different from what I wrote; many times so different that I can’t even recognize any similarity. And then, as I develop the song, it changes even more.
I think most people are way more like me than like savants who can remember exactly what they heard five years, five days, five minutes (or five seconds) ago and reproduce it.
Now that I trust my brain, bad memory included, to mess up my attempts at ‘copying’… I feel much freer to copy or, if you’d like, be inspired – which really helps my creative flow.
I believe that it’s a better approach to write, say, twenty songs without copy-fear and maybe have to throw one out because it’s too similar to something else, than to write only five of those twenty because I’m afraid that the other fifteen are too much like something else.
Does copy-fear affect you? Does it sometimes slow down or stop you? How do you get around it?
Please let me know your thoughts in the Comments section below:
Thanks to Ray Fortunato for sending me the above math, from the research of Oli Freke (great name!).
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I stole an Elvis Costello melody that I really liked, and wrote a song to it. By the time I was finished, not even Elvis Costello’s mother would have recognized the melody. I’d changed the tempo, changed the notes. What had attracted me most to the Costello song was a little rhythmically tricky thing that I hadn’t heard before, and really liked. I kept that…until I changed it too.
Tad,
Exactly! Plunging ahead is good.
Thanks for writing,
TC
Hmmmm, ? Very interesting!
I find the #s breakdown impressive as well as encouraging to just go ahead and create W/O fear of ripping off someone’s melody. I have more than my share of my own internal editor/fears setting up road blocks to my song writing. Glad I can let go of this one.
I’m happy to know I’m not the only weirdo out there, since I’m always and where ever I am, humming, singing or recording snippets of melodies that reveal themselves from inside or outside my head.
Andy,
As long as we’re both here, you’re not the only weirdo out there… Thanks!
Best wishes,
TC
I get around copy fear with awareness that one of my favourite chord progressions, the simple minor 7th to major 7th, has been used literally thousands of times, (Theme From A Summer Place, Hello It’s Me, The Game of Love) & sounds different under each melody written. This allows me some breathing room where I can find a melody groove & turn it into a chorus or series of verses easily. It took me 44 years of practice to do this.
Michael,
As a late bloomer, I can appreciate your process. Thanks for writing!
TC
I am often inspired by older songs, from the 50’s to 80’s than by today’s sounds, and every now and then I do write a song and then I go, Hey, this is sounding too much like So and So song. If its too exact, I wind up doing a cover version, but if I tweak it here and there, changing a chord here and a chord there, or even the Key and make sure I sing it differently than the song that inspired me, Voila! a totally new song emerges!
And a good practice, at least for me, is when you write lyrics but have writer’s block as a composer is to write to an existing song (backing tracks or karaoke tracks are great for this process) and when you are done, put the song away for a couple weeks, go on to write the next and so on, and when you have a good amount of songs piled up and your musical creative juices starts flowing again, dig into those lyrics you had written and believe me, 9 out of 10 times you will forget the tracks you used to write them and you will start singing and playing your guitar or piano to a new composition that in no way resembles the song you used to write with. I personally remember using, as an example, The Phsychedelic Furs song “Pretty In Pink” as a creative board. The song that came out of that is now in no way close to it, and you won’t hear a trace of plagiarized melody upon hearing it, and I’ve done that with maybe about 15 to 20 songs, only when I have writer’s block. (I’ve been writing for almost 40 years with about 1000 songs to my name). As a writer one must continue his or her craft, don’t let writer’s block stop you. I think my method works, so long as you remember Not to remember what your inspirational tool was in reference to another song. While I may have a few songs that are easily spotted as an obviously inspired by another artist’s style (I have a few Beatlesque tunes), I also have quite a number of uniquely mine originals as well. And still go on writing songs!!
Sorry for long comment but if it helps others, then it’s all good! 🙂
Jayson,
Great approach… I’ve been known to use it myself!
Thanks for writing – at length,
Tony
2 notes, 25 combinations? Only if you limit yourself to one octave, Tony 😉
Gavin
Gavin,
Thank you! I appreciate the careful reading. I should have specified that and have changed it.
Best wishes,
Tony
Really good post!
The depressing suspicion that “what I just came up with” melodically, may just be a modified rendition of something I heard ages ago, is always at the back of my mind. Sometimes, I sit at the piano and a complete melody “comes out of nowhere”. At first I’m excited but the more I play it, the more I question it…………………..
So, to avoid the discomfort of that possible reality, I give up and start “coming up” with something else……………
(some days are worse than others)……………………
Does the feeling stop me?
Not exactly; but it certainly gets in way.
Deb
Deb,
‘If it came out of my mind… I wrote it until proven otherwise!’
Best wishes,
Tony
These other comments are very old, so I don’t know if this comment will be seen, but…
I have a short introductory song that has the melody of a song from a video game (I like the game and its music a LOT). I was just curious if the rules you listed still apply or if some things differ?
John,
If the melody’s exactly the same you may have a problem at some point, particularly if you start making money from it. Change a few notes and… Voila! You’ve made it your own. Give it a try…
Best wishes,
Tony
I had this problem with the song I am currently working on. After writing the chorus another well-known song came to mind and I realized that that the first part has the same melody and rhythm as the well-known song so now I have to go back and tweak it. And it was working so well with the lyrics too. Oh well.
Sherri,
Unfortunately this does happen every once in a while. As you said… Oh well.
Keep writing, and thanks for reading and commenting!
Best wishes,
Tony
Mr.Tony i wanna write a song which i’m writing but i feel like i’m getting the lyrics from somewhere else can you help me because I don’t wanna be known as a thief. Can you please respond soon.
Sincerely yours,
Trinity Huey
I wrote a song and it fit the music from Lucille. If I play it in front of people, they like it, but all comment melody sounds just like Lucille. What is the best way to tweak and/or re-vamp it? Every time I try I can’t get Lucille melody out of my mind.
Bill,
I’ve had this problem, and dealt with it this way: Find a change in the melody that I like (but am not used to it yet so it feels weird). Then… the hard part… getting myself to learn the new melody, like I’m learning someone else’s melody) by singing it a bunch of times until it feels natural; ‘right’.
Sometimes this isn’t as hard as I expect it to be.
Good luck!
Tony
yep totally thought of that and i kept thinking im gonna get arrested for copy rights. i never made the melody yet it automaticaly plays in my head with all the instruments included. i know im kinda crazy, thats weird. but now i keep thinking i stole the melody 😮 😮 please help
mqhele,
Thanks for writing… but I’m afraid all I can suggest is to reread what I wrote above, as well as the replies and comments. They’re my best suggestions.
Best wishes and Happy Holidays,
Tony
This sort of reminds me of what I once read about writing fiction: If you’re having trouble thinking up a plot, just go to the plot store. The plot store is simply a book store or a library where there are novels. Take one of the plots and change some things by putting a different twist on it — i.e., maybe The Godfather as a science fiction novel — and, voila, you have a plot that will just naturally take a whole different direction once aliens, advanced technology, space travel, etc., are added to the mix. I don’t write novels, but I do write songs, and the prospect of unintentional plagiarism bothers me too. I think the only problem I see with your comments is that while it is true that the number of possible note and rhythm combinations add up very quickly — even within one octave — it’s also true that the listener’s ear expects certain patterns, so it’s kind of easy to go to patterns that someone else has used for that very same reason: the listener’s ear expects certain patterns. But your article does present a good perspective and makes me feel better about the issue.
Great points; thanks, Richard.
Best wishes,
Tony
This was just what I needed to hear. Thank you so much!
Thanks for reading and for the encouraging words.
Best wishes,
Tony
I do not quite agree on the “Change a few notes and… Voila! You’ve made it your own” it sounds like an imitator who pretends to be a non-imitator and it’s not about the creation, nor even about the inspiration. is just plagiarism “disguised” to avoid being unmasked.
I do not know how it is in other countries, but in France for example, artists were convicted for plagiarism and the judges did not rely on the accuracy of the melody, but on a PERCENTAGE (eg Chord progression similar to 80%, melody similar to 65%, Arrangement similar to 70% = Partial plagiarism), they conclude that the artist did well more than take inspiration from the song “victim”.
If an author really feels that “your” melody has been copied to his own, he can really come to blame you if he succeeds in convincing the judge / jury that you have “made up” your “copy”, he can even trace your plagiarism process in the opposite way: by taking “your” song and modifying it a bit until it reveals its version, if these changes appear “technical” and not creative, intentional and not spontaneous, the judges and the experts will see it and you will be condemned.
Few judges tolerate copying, especially if it is disguised as masquerading, so they make a lot of effort to understand the process of plagiarism, and they do not hesitate to appeal to impartial experts.
There are an infinity of melodies that are only waiting to be discovered or created, I advise you to imitate just to learn.
“Think You Stole Your Melody From Another Song?”
It’s easy to check : Remove all the ornament And keep only the main notes (ex: a note by pulse), adapt it to the bpm, fell & time signature of the original melody, if after that it looks like the other melody, then…
“You’re Probably Right !”
I really think most good/great songwriters – even the most original ones – do a lot of what I describe in the post. They might get inspired by anything… but it comes out their way.
Just my opinions/observations…
Thanks for reading and writing so thoughtfully.
Best wishes,
Tony
Hi Tony, hi John,
Tony, what you said about changing a few notes is interesting for many reasons. Originality is perhaps in the process of the composite sound developing some new significance for the person working it over and over again. All pots have the same function but can look different with a little extra craftsmanship and a few dents or bumps added to their design when the clay is raw.
I just got out of an ‘induction’ to a qualifying round in a talent competition. The artists get asked whether the piece being performed is their own after they have declared it is.
:8o (Glasses dropping down one’s nose)
My piece has been growing for years and I then bent and stuck some beads into it (using the pot metaphor) to make it appropriate to the occasion. I enjoyed it because it was already ‘mine’, though we all know that all our work comes out of a collective consciousness, really, and it’s only ours for local reasons unless the works stand the test of broader exposure.4 March 2018
May I add (ask) a question that was also raised in that ‘induction’ nightmare about using a popular old melody (and the feeling the original lyrics evoke in a nostalgic audience) to write new lyrics for, as an expression of devotion to a spiritual master? My friend did that and referred to it as ‘my song’ in his ‘induction’ and got his knuckles rapped. This would result in a new song. Who would be the owner of that song if appropriate credit were given to the movie-maker and there were no objection to using the tune to express adoration, appreciation and love for one’s spiritual ‘protector’?
Thanks
Mohamed
@kirimba
Basically, what you describe in your last paragraph is how, for most of human history, songs have been written.
It’s only with the invention of copyright (a good thing for us!), and now the seemingly infinite extension of copyright, that things have changed, because of the financial implications of borrowing too closely.
Now, no matter what your friend’s good intentions, he would need to get permission from and share credit with his ‘co-writer’.
Best wishes,
Tony
I made a song a few years ago, loved it, listened to it, and decided to upload it to soundcloud. Upon doing so, I received a few comments from people that I had copied a song’s main melody.
After listening to the song, I found that two major parts were almost exactly the same as the two major parts in my song.
I just find it odd that I never heard of the song yet managed to almost copy it entirely. So I came to the conclusion that even if there are millions and billions of different combinations, I just had a similar perspective on how the chords would work together. Since I don’t plan on making any money on said song, and it’s just a fun thing, it doesn’t really matter to me what i copied or not.
Sounds good to me!
Best wishes,
Tony
I think it’s a faker who writes this advocacy for creative theft. Sad.
I say YUK. BRO.
Somebodies pedaling garbage.
I think thieves should be jailed like any other thief.
Sorry but I don’t make light of creative theft.
Peace
Firstly, nobody owns anything created except the Creator Himself the source of all thought, sound waves, melody, and creation itself. So let’s remember to give ALL creative licence and credit to GOD ALMIGHTY and not allow pride and envy strangle our gift to make beautiful music.
If you can honestly create a melody using a combination that has never ever been used in part by any other artist – then you are a creative savant and based on your comment I think you’re not a savant but someone who has felt ripped off? But this day and age, millions upon millions of musicians and songwriters are publishing to the web, and we are exposed to so much music now that is not even famous – just a melody from an indie artist nobody knows about – and you hear the melody and it downloads into your subconcious mind – and sometime in the future you unintentially begin to hum part of that riff and create your song from it, that is not theft all all.
I am wanting to use a Hank Williams melody but I am wanting to change the key and tempo, would this be ok to write an original song to? Thank you!
No, sorry… the key and tempo have nothing to do with it.
Best wishes,
Tony
The song “Perfect” by Ed Sheeran begins like “Amazing Grace”
I think the new SHallow song from Gaga and COoper has a familar riff of Sound of Madness by Shinedown at the hook…. no?
Will check it out!
Best wishes,
Tony
I paid a guy on Airgigs to provide a vocal track for my song. I said he could make small changes to the melody if he thought it would help. He changed more than I intended. It sounds OK, but will he later try to claim co-writer status? He also provided a harmony track.
It’s possible (it happens), but I think you’re on fairly solid ground. You sent him your melody, you didn’t request changes, embellishing the melody is very common, etc.
But it depends on the particulars… and I AM NOT A LAWYER! Just my opinion, given what you’ve written here.
Best wishes,
Tony
I think it’s disingenuous to imply, as one of your commenters did, that in order to be creative you may not take inspiration from anyone else’s work. In practice, everybody does.
If you’re going to be a purist, how far do you take it? Not use a twelve tone octave, or eight note scales? Not use chords or established ideas of tonality, or rhythmic organization?
I think it’s not so much what you borrow, except for obvious legal considerations, as what you do with it that counts.
Some wacky ideas for dealing with a borrowed melody:
1) invert it
2) try it in retrograde (turn it backwards)
3) write the notes on pieces of paper, throw them in the air, and make your melody the order in which you pick them up.
4) think of the thing that the borrowed melody makes you feel that is special, and try out stuff until something else strikes you the same way.
5) borrowed from Henry Mancini: Never be afraid to throw away something that isn’t working. A little off topic, but great advice.
As always, thank you, Jon!
TC
Very interesting read. Thank you…The other week I decided to use the Lahaina(aka centipede song)song by Loggins & Messina. I even emailed Jim Messina about it. Changed a great majority of the words, after reading your article I’m pretty sure I used the same melody, for sure similar ukulele cords. Called the song In Honolulu( the cockaroach song). Still wondering if I committed a crime or wrote an original song which I credit Loggins & Messina for. Or do I need to do more?
And I’m no musician or songwriter by any stretch, just a Dad to two girls than happens to also teach at the University of Hawaii. Pete
Peter,
If you ever go public with the song and make any money from it, Loggins & Messina’s publishers will send their lawyers after you and probably get ALL the money.
Doing what you’ve done just for fun or private enjoyment isn’t unusual and in my opinion does no harm (again, I’M NOT A LAWYER), but if you ever want to go public with it you could have a major problem.
Sorry but, to the best of my knowledge, it’s true!
Try changing a few notes in the melody…?
Best,
Tony
Sailed close to the wind in your songwriting? You’re hardly alone: Start!, Every Breath You Take, Grace Kelly, My Sweet Lord, Creep, Why Don’t You Get A Job, I Love My Label, Do You think I’m Sixty, Just the Way You Are and many many more are close cousins of earlier tunes. Even very similar is not the same – ripping off is part of being a songwriter. But crucially, it’s never the whole deal.
Steve,
Bluntly put, but that’s pretty much the story. If you break it down, EVERYTHING sounds like something else.
Thanks,
Tony
I do often think I’m copying a melody but ,as you point out, the odds of it coming out the exact same are slim so I don’t let it inhibit the writing process. Sometimes good lyric lines come I even think I’m going lyrics and it turns out I didn’t know the lyrics to the song I’m copying
Leslie,
I agree… slim!
TC
I have lyrics with a good rhyme but I am stuck finding a melody if you can help me by guiding me in any possible way it will be a great help
Nishant,
There’s a video about melody writing on this website at the bottom of the ‘Ask Tony’ videos page: https://tonyconniff.com/ask-tony-videos/
Thanks,
Tony
Tony,
thank q for telling me this
I have been worrying about this because the first two line of the chorus in my first written songs sounds really familiar though I can’t recall where I heard it
Natasha
Thanks for reading and writing, Natasha!
Thanks so much for the tips Tony. I have been known to have “paralysis by analysis” and stopped cold in my tracks because of this. My biggest problem is that I love writing lyrics and have been for years but can’t read or write music. Kills me because I will have some great lyrical ideas but just sit on them because I can’t put together a melody. Any suggestions???
Jeff,
As I mentioned above, there’s a video about melody writing on this website in the Resources section, at the bottom of the ‘Ask Tony’ videos page: https://tonyconniff.com/ask-tony-videos/
Thanks,
Tony
Mr.Tony i wanna write a song which i’m writing but i feel like i’m getting the lyrics from somewhere else can you help me because I don’t wanna be known as a thief. Can you please respond soon.
Sincerely yours,
Trinity Huey
Trinity,
As I said in the post, just because it feels like you’re stealing doesn’t mean you are. That’s a nagging feeling many of us have.
Google the lyric phrases that concern you. If nothing substantial shows up, charge forward!
Tony
ps Sorry for the delayed reply.
Tony… if I have the feeling I lifted something, or close enough to something that it’s noticeable, I first try to figure out what song I lifted from. If I can’t figure it out (after trying for five minutes), I will tweak the notes but keep the rhythm of the melody. While I intentionally lift these melodic rhythms all the time, it’s the notes that sometimes make what I lifted a little too close to the original, so when I think I did that by accident, I make those slight changes. To me, it’s the melodic rhythms that are the real source of catchiness in melody anyway- and rhythms on their own are not copyrightable, and just like in jazz soloing, commonly used rhythms are part of the language of the music we play!
Great points and ideas, Adam; thanks!