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	Comments on: The Joy Of Cutting	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/</link>
	<description>Songwriter, Producer, and Coach, based in New York City.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:20:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: joyce rogers		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joyce rogers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyconniff.com/?p=2073#comment-6487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[cut]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cut</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tony Conniff		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6486</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Conniff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2014 18:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyconniff.com/?p=2073#comment-6486</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Annie.  
You make some great points that I appreciate.  I absolutely agree that many bloated Pre-Choruses would be better cut down to Vests or lost altogether.
However, I&#039;m not sure I can agree with you about non-existence of the Pre-Chorus as a section in itself (in 2014, anyway).  
In my previous post I mention three of them - if they are just &#039;vests&#039;, they&#039;re down vests - quite substantial!  And there are many other songs with similarly substantial new sections between the Verse and Chorus that are different enough from both to require a name when discussing.  
So... whether there should be Pre-Choruses is one thing; a matter of opinion... whether there are Pre-Choruses I think is pretty established (though one can certainly call it by whatever name one likes...).
Thanks for all your comments, and for caring enough to share them!
Best wishes,
Tony
http://tonyconniff.com/lorde-adele-mj-the-art-of-the-pre-chorus/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Annie.<br />
You make some great points that I appreciate.  I absolutely agree that many bloated Pre-Choruses would be better cut down to Vests or lost altogether.<br />
However, I&#8217;m not sure I can agree with you about non-existence of the Pre-Chorus as a section in itself (in 2014, anyway).<br />
In my previous post I mention three of them &#8211; if they are just &#8216;vests&#8217;, they&#8217;re down vests &#8211; quite substantial!  And there are many other songs with similarly substantial new sections between the Verse and Chorus that are different enough from both to require a name when discussing.<br />
So&#8230; whether there should be Pre-Choruses is one thing; a matter of opinion&#8230; whether there are Pre-Choruses I think is pretty established (though one can certainly call it by whatever name one likes&#8230;).<br />
Thanks for all your comments, and for caring enough to share them!<br />
Best wishes,<br />
Tony<br />
<a href="http://tonyconniff.com/lorde-adele-mj-the-art-of-the-pre-chorus/" rel="ugc">http://tonyconniff.com/lorde-adele-mj-the-art-of-the-pre-chorus/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Annie Dinerman		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6485</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Annie Dinerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In my opinion, there is no such thing as a &quot;pre-chorus.&quot;  I say this because I&#039;ve heard the term used (mostly by unschooled writers) for over five years and in that time, no better or more accurate name for it has come into use.

Ira Gershwin called it the &quot;Vest.&quot;  It&#039;s that little piece of material between the coat and the shirt.  The coat and the shirt are two major and indispensable pieces of clothing.  The vest is a sort of connector.  If you want to see how it&#039;s used by a master, the library has books of Gershwin lyrics.

In the interest of economy of language, which can add immeasurable power to a lyric, I try to avoid using a Vest unless the melody demands it -- and that&#039;s because the emotion in lyric is going through a transition.  So my advice is, Be wary of any new kind of section in a lyric that doesn&#039;t have a substantial name.  A name of substance indicates usefulness, function.  If it&#039;s called a pre-anything, it&#039;s probably not necessary.  Learning to cut will make you feel more powerful as a communicator.  And you can always save the previous version on your flash drive in case it turns out to be the one you like better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, there is no such thing as a &#8220;pre-chorus.&#8221;  I say this because I&#8217;ve heard the term used (mostly by unschooled writers) for over five years and in that time, no better or more accurate name for it has come into use.</p>
<p>Ira Gershwin called it the &#8220;Vest.&#8221;  It&#8217;s that little piece of material between the coat and the shirt.  The coat and the shirt are two major and indispensable pieces of clothing.  The vest is a sort of connector.  If you want to see how it&#8217;s used by a master, the library has books of Gershwin lyrics.</p>
<p>In the interest of economy of language, which can add immeasurable power to a lyric, I try to avoid using a Vest unless the melody demands it &#8212; and that&#8217;s because the emotion in lyric is going through a transition.  So my advice is, Be wary of any new kind of section in a lyric that doesn&#8217;t have a substantial name.  A name of substance indicates usefulness, function.  If it&#8217;s called a pre-anything, it&#8217;s probably not necessary.  Learning to cut will make you feel more powerful as a communicator.  And you can always save the previous version on your flash drive in case it turns out to be the one you like better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tony Conniff		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6484</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Conniff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyconniff.com/?p=2073#comment-6484</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6482&quot;&gt;Jason Das&lt;/a&gt;.

Jason,
Great point!  Personally, I&#039;ve never had much luck with this (like sometimes happens with an organ transplant, the new song seems to reject the &#039;foreign body&#039;), but I know other writers who have.
The great songwriter Tamara Hey responded to this post with: &#039;As one of my teachers used to say, 
&quot;If it&#039;s not working it should be fired, but you can always hire it back in another song.&quot;&#039;
Best wishes,
Tony]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6482">Jason Das</a>.</p>
<p>Jason,<br />
Great point!  Personally, I&#8217;ve never had much luck with this (like sometimes happens with an organ transplant, the new song seems to reject the &#8216;foreign body&#8217;), but I know other writers who have.<br />
The great songwriter Tamara Hey responded to this post with: &#8216;As one of my teachers used to say,<br />
&#8220;If it&#8217;s not working it should be fired, but you can always hire it back in another song.&#8221;&#8216;<br />
Best wishes,<br />
Tony</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tony Conniff		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6483</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Conniff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2014 18:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyconniff.com/?p=2073#comment-6483</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6481&quot;&gt;Andy Marino&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, Andy. Happy Thanksgiving to you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6481">Andy Marino</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Andy. Happy Thanksgiving to you!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Das		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6482</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Das]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyconniff.com/?p=2073#comment-6482</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And the bonus is: if the stuff you cut was actually quality, you can build new songs around it! Or at least keep them in the spare parts drawer for some kind of future use.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the bonus is: if the stuff you cut was actually quality, you can build new songs around it! Or at least keep them in the spare parts drawer for some kind of future use.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andy Marino		</title>
		<link>https://tonyconniff.com/the-joy-of-cutting-the-song-not-the-turkey/#comment-6481</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Marino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Yeah Tony,
I dig... I&#039;m at that point with a new song right now. 
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
PAX
AM]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Tony,<br />
I dig&#8230; I&#8217;m at that point with a new song right now.<br />
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!<br />
PAX<br />
AM</p>
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